I want to get that smooth Vinnie sound

[S.P]

vinnie is vinnie and you wont be able to develop the same sound as him as we are all unique. You might be able to get close if you really tried, but you should try and look for your own voice on the instrument.

If you want to learn about his playing though, you might want to check out the unreel Book by Marc Atkinson

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 28, 2005 01:08 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>

[frankw]

If I try playing paradiddles around the kit fast I sound not bad If I play paradiddles around the kit at a slower speed it sounds like sh*t. I just found out I don't have a good feel playing at different tempos. I can't play with a good feel just playing rudiments like paradiddles around the kit or just playing on the snare. I was using Vinnie as an example of what i'm trying to do. I guess I answered my own question BUT If anybody has advice of how to start playing with a better feel please let me know

[Henry II]

Yeah sure, you and every other drummer on the planet.

[SBdrumz]

Frank-

All of the drumming heroes we admire on this board all have one thing in common: impeccable technique. To be a great drummer requires one to get to the point where he can properly articulate what he hears in his head with his hands and feet. What makes Vinnie sound so smooth is a combination of what's going on between his ears, and how his technical ability let's him execute his ideas. So, IMO, there's really two concurrent approaches required to get to that 'place'.

1)The technical
Get yourself a good teacher, and practice practice practice. Work the hands and feet at all tempos. Rudiments are great, George Lawrence Stone's 'Stick Control' is invaluable. In addition to the 'hands only' application of rudiments and Stick Control, there are many fun ways to integrate your feet into the equation. You can also apply the exercises to the kit. A good teacher can properly lead you down that path. Additionally, there are hundreds of other books that can work out your hand-foot chops, as well as indepence. Chaffee's 'Patterns' books (if ya wanna be like Vince!) as well as Chester's New Breed books (if ya wanna be like Dave!) are perhaps the most notable.

The goal is to be able to play anything and everything with your hands a feet: total independence of your limbs, with the ability to execute at all tempos.

2)The musical
Become a sponge. Get familiar with all the styles, starting with basic rock, funk, jazz and latin. As you become comfortable with the basics, expand your vocabulary by studying how many of the artists over the past couple of decades have infused one style into another: i.e. latin/swing, rock/jazz, funk/swing.

Vinnie's 'smoothness', IMO, stems from his ability to 'hear' the proper parts to play (stemming from his vast musical knowledge) coupled with his ability to 'apply' what he hears to the drumset. This is born out by the hours and hours in the practice room over many many years in conjuction with the countless musical situations he's performed in or been exposed to. (Of course, this is all speculation on my part!!!)

To play 'just like' Vinnie is shouldn't be your goal (as S.P. mentioned), but to understand his methodology is a great way to start down the path of developing your own voice.

OR, you could disregard all the previous comments above, buy a white Gretsch drums with black rims and Remo heads, get some A Customs, and buy a pair of Zildjian Vinnie Colaiuta drumsticks, and wail away!! [img]wink.gif[/img]

-Scott

[Dazzler]

Good points all.... Frank. Firstly, let me ask you what the 'smooth Vinnie sound' is? The guy is arguably one of the worlds greatest drummers. Playing paradiddles round the kit doesn't mean (and shouldn't mean) anything.

As has been said, get yourself a good teacher practice for YEARS and YEARS, study all styles of music and know each style. Spend YEARS and YEARS in recording studios recording everything from 10 second jingles to albums and film soundtracks, tour for YEARS and YEARS with the worlds greatest musicians, study complex polyrythms and independance so it is completely internalised and each of your limbs are able to operate by themselves. Study hand technique for YEARS so you have complete and utter control of the sticks and then carry on studying for YEARS and YEARS so you are able to play whatever you want no matter how fast or complex instantly. Spend YEARS and YEARS working with musicians that you are comfortable with so you can build a rappor, learn to read anything that is put in front of you and learn how to interpret charts and then maybe..... just MAYBE you'll get that 'smooth Vinnie sound'.

Alternatively, you could wake up - smell the coffee and just try to be the best musician that YOU could possibly be, WITHOUT wishing to emulate the unatainable!! Music isn't about copying players - you are allowed to be heavily influenced by musician, but the way that Frank will get work, is because people want to play with FRANK and not a Vinnie clone. Just enjoy the drums and playing with other musicians. Forget licks, tricks and how fast your paradiddles are. You'll rarely use them, I promise you.

[img]wink.gif[/img]

Take care.

EDIT: Just realised that I repeated the other guys comment, sorry. I guess it means that there must be some truth in what we wrote!!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 28, 2005 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font>

[Derek DeFields]

I'm going to take a wild stab at this; are you saying you don't like the "tone" you're producing? When you say someone is holding your hand back, it makes me think you're "upstroking" too much. Sometimes this comes if you've practiced on pillows too much which works for playing fast, but makes the sound thin when playing slowly.

IF that's the case, you're probably holding the sticks a little too far back and you should practice medium tempos while playing slightly more 'into' the drum. Not pounding, just generating a solid tone that sounds good to your ear.

If that's not what you mean, I'm lost. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[SBdrumz]

Originally posted by Dazzler:
Forget licks, tricks and how fast your paradiddles are. You'll rarely use them, I promise you.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah...ya don't need paradiddles unless you're trying to sound like Neil Peart (see Spirit of the Radio ride cymbal pattern, among others!)

[img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

-Scott

[frankw]

What are best excersises to practice on the kit to get that smooth tight Vinnie sound. I have a hold back crap sound when I listen and see myself back I think i'm God's gift to the set until I see myself back i want that Vinnie cordination.it sounds like someone is holding my hand back while i'm playing.

[DPFRD]

To me, it seems like everyone missed the point of this post. If I understand that you want to achieve that legato sound vinnie gets on his stuff with Sting. I would say that this is all a feel matter. Slow tempos are arguably the most challenging, if you just want to have that smooth flowing feel.

I would get a drum machine.

Make good beats to play over, then slowly remove notes from it. Do this until you can line up with it even if there is only a hit every four or eight counts. This helps develop your feel without the nome dictating everything to you. I devised this method when I realized that I can play with a metronome fine, but without it my time wandered.

Other than that, if you notice your time is bad at a certain bpm, practice it every day until you get comfortable. Make sure to switch tempos around, as to not get stuck in one area. Also, keep math in mind, switching from 60 to 120 isn't going to help. Watch out for subdivision changes too. Triplets at 100 are the same as 16ths at 75.

One thing, Dazz, not to get into you in any way, cause I know you know WTF is up, but telling someone to wake up and smell the coffee cause they'll never be Vinnie is a bit harsh. I'm sure someone might have told Vinnie or Dave Weckl the same when they were listening to a buttload of Buddy or Tony, but they came out on top.

It just seems a little defeating.

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ June 28, 2005 01:32 PM: Message edited by: DeeP_FRieD ]</font>

[SBdrumz]

Originally posted by DeeP_FRieD:

I would get a drum machine.

Make good beats to play over, then slowly remove notes from it. Do this until you can line up with it even if there is only a hit every four or eight counts. This helps develop your feel without the nome dictating everything to you. I devised this method when I realized that I can play with a metronome fine, but without it my time wandered.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">GREAT suggestion, DF! Back in the day (when my time REALLY sucked!), I used to trade 4s, 8s, 12, and 16s with my HR-16B. A tribute to Alesis...that little box withstood many a drumstick being thrown at it! [img]wink.gif[/img]

Frank-you'd be well served to utilize a drum machine in this manner in your practice time. It's invaluable!

-Scott